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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Lelorelyn wrote:
Not completely true, although some of them may have been in the Webway. They're actually Eldar who have survived the psychic backlash somehow ( apparently by being bad ass or on cocaine)... and then realized that their souls are being slowly leeched away from them by Her.

All Eldar in the Webway during the Fall became Soul-Lost/Dark Eldar. The survived simply because their souls were in another state of reality it has nothing to do with the Dark Eldar persona. The Dark Eldar did not leave the Webway until about 3 millennia after the fall so it is safe to assume that they depleted their weak so that only the most insane, capacious and violent survived until the raiding era.

Lelorelyn wrote:
If by "ability" you mean potential you'd be wrong, they still have the same psychic potential as CWE... just that they don't develop it at all, out of fear from Her. If by ability you mean simply that they don't utilize it in any form in combat or out of it ( other by using psychic artifacts) you'd be spot on. :D


No Dark Eldar has psychic ability/potential. It is not known why, they simply lack the ability.


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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:20 pm 
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Secondat2 wrote:
All Eldar in the Webway during the Fall became Soul-Lost/Dark Eldar. The survived simply because their souls were in another state of reality it has nothing to do with the Dark Eldar persona. The Dark Eldar did not leave the Webway until about 3 millennia after the fall so it is safe to assume that they depleted their weak so that only the most insane, capacious and violent survived until the raiding era.


You're actually right, which is something I figured out by re-reading about The Fall of the Eldar. The first time I apparently mixed up the Eldar that survived on the Crone Worlds with the Dark Eldar. In that I thought that some of them actually survived and went on to join the Dark Eldar in Commoragh... which they didn't. Oh well, thank you for correcting me.


Secondat wrote:
No Dark Eldar has psychic ability/potential. It is not known why, they simply lack the ability.


And here I have the opportunity to correct you. Hope you don't mind.


It's called atrophy. I trust you know what that is?

And it happened because they didn't channel their innate psychic potential for countless generations. Which they didn't because the channeling of psychic energies in the Webway would apparently invite disaster, as in draw the attention of Slaanesh or other warp entities. Thus the practice of psychic abilities is one of the few truly forbidden activities to the Dark Eldar. And it's not like they could spend a lot of time in Realspace to practice. ( They could in theory, I guess... who knows?)

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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:46 pm 
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You'vr misunderstood the excerpt.

[quote=Lelorelyn (1)]If by "ability" you mean potential you'd be wrong, they still have the same psychic potential as CWE... just that they don't develop it at all, out of fear from Her. [/quote]

[quote=Lelorelyn (1)]And it happened because they didn't channel their innate psychic potential for countless generations. Which they didn't because the channeling of psychic energies in the Webway would apparently invite disaster, as in draw the attention of Slaanesh or other warp entities. Thus the practice of psychic abilities is one of the few truly forbidden activities to the Dark Eldar.[/quote]

These two quotes are mutually exclusive in their veracity. They either have.

The atrophy entails that that the ability decayed - Dark Eldar can no longer use Psychic abilities; it does not mean that they can use them but don't by choice. Would you be able to write if your armed had decayed out of function? Of course not.

If you are right, then you've equivocated the meaning of atrophy.

So which is right?


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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Atrophy doesn't have to be total as in absolute. Do you know anything about anything? :|


Your arm can decay to a certain degree and you won't be able to write. Long before it falls off you're still able to start a process that would hopefully, over time, restore your hand to a normal state.


Now, regarding Dark Eldar. No, I'm not going to discuss it with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:03 pm 
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Lelorelyn wrote:
Atrophy doesn't have to be total as in absolute.

I never said that. Read it again.

With atrophy the decay reduces the functionality of the given organ to a degree. The potential to use the organ well is effectively gone; it cannot happen without a miracle. Dark Eldar have "atrophied" their ability they have reached the point where they are incapable of psychic ability. It is not:

[quote="Lelorelyn"]If by "ability" you mean potential you'd be wrong, they still have the same psychic potential as CWE... just that they don't develop it at all, out of fear from Her.[quote]

This is wrong. And if taken to be true renders the idea of Dark Eldar psychic atrophy wrong since according to you "they still have the same psychic potential as CWE (Craftworld Eldar)".

You're wrong and it's that simple; consede in grace.


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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Wow, I'm playing "Who's right" with some random twerp on some random forum. No, really? :lol:


And as if that is not bad enough I also lost the game. Wow, now I really feel depressed. I mean... how's poor me going to continue with her life now that it was "proven" that she was wrong. Yeah.


Grow up. Get a grip on reality.



Anyway, I shall not "consede in grace". At least not before banging you over the head with a huge sign that explains the meaning of the word "potential".


But before that I'll just clear something out...

Secondat2 wrote:
Lelorelyn wrote:
Atrophy doesn't have to be total as in absolute.


I never said that. Read it again.


And I never said that you said it. Why did you even for a moment think that I did such a ghastly thing? Honestly, why?


Secondly, you're really stupid. This is not meant as an insult, in fact... I feel really bad about you being stupid. And I really, really wish you weren't. You or anyone else. It makes me sad. Now, look at this...

Secondat2 wrote:
With atrophy the decay reduces the functionality of the given organ to a degree. The potential to use the organ well is effectively gone; it cannot happen without a miracle.


To a degree. The potential to use the organ in question at all may not be impeded a whole lot, depending on how far the state of atrophy has progressed. At some point said organ loses pretty much all of it's functionality, yes. Which leads me to...

Secondat2 wrote:
Dark Eldar have "atrophied" their ability they have reached the point where they are incapable of psychic ability.


Well, why don't you prove it.

And if you can prove that Dark Eldar lost all their latent psychic ability... well, lemme know.



I can provide proof that strongly implies that they still possess the latent potential to become "psychically active", with proper training. If you bother to read up about DE you'll read that "channeling of psychic energies and sorceries" is outlawed in Commoragh. If they had already lost all capability... wouldn't the writers had written that it used to be outlawed?

Can you somehow actually refute this point or are you going to brain-fart some more? :|




And the word potential... just look it up, god damn it. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:02 am 
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Quote:
Countless generations of physical conflict have ensured the Dark Eldar have better reaction speed and greater physical strength than other elements of the Eldar Race, the innate psychic abilities of their forebears have atrophied. To channel the energies of Chaos within Commorragh would invite disaster, for such psychic pyrotechnics could draw the gaze of She Who Thirsts, the nemesis of the Eldar race.[sic]


Take this with how pskers are priced slaves in Commoragh and how Dark Eldar have no known pskers, it not so hard to assume they have no ability at all. Dark Eldar psykers are virtually unheard-of which is why I assumed they didn't exist - they probably don't but I guess it's too vague to be sure.

Either way it wasn't explicit as I thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:59 am 
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Secondat2 wrote:
Quote:
Countless generations of physical conflict have ensured the Dark Eldar have better reaction speed and greater physical strength than other elements of the Eldar Race, the innate psychic abilities of their forebears have atrophied. To channel the energies of Chaos within Commorragh would invite disaster, for such psychic pyrotechnics could draw the gaze of She Who Thirsts, the nemesis of the Eldar race.[sic]


Take this with how pskers are priced slaves in Commoragh and how Dark Eldar have no known pskers, it not so hard to assume they have no ability at all. Dark Eldar psykers are virtually unheard-of which is why I assumed they didn't exist - they probably don't but I guess it's too vague to be sure.

Either way it wasn't explicit as I thought.


Wait, is that your way of kinda apologizing? :shock:

And your faint acknowledgement that I was right all along? :D


Not that I was. I assumed that they still posses psychic potential just as you assumed they didn't. To get to the bottom of this we'd have to contact GW I suppose...

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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:25 am 
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No, it's me saying you're no more right than I am because it doesn't explicitly say either. It implies both positions.

God, are you this annoying in day to day life?


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 Post subject: Re: Who would pick DE over just eldar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:52 pm 
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More. :lol:



Also, I find it really cute how you didn't see fit to mention or comment on that little bit of "evidence" I posted above. "Who's right?" is serious business, eh? :lol:

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