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 Post subject: Population Balance
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:52 pm 
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Alright, so I went back a few pages and saw a couple posts that touched on this issue, but not to the extent that I generally prefer. So here I'd like to throw out some ideas on how to balance the server/faction/race populations.

It was said by Games Workshop that Space Marines make up about 80% of the sales, so I think we can safely assume Space Marines will be a huge hit in the MMO. Here are my guesses for populations:

Imperium of Man: 70%
Chaos: 15%
Orks: 8%
Eldar: 7%

Now these are of course assuming they don't do any sort of marketing beforehand to try getting people into the right factions. I'm sure Vigil/THQ knows exactly how it will play out if they don't, so I imagine those numbers will even out quite a bit. If we go by how every other W40k game in history has been advertised, however, we'll see 99% Space Marines, 0.9% IoM. :P

So let's start with the ideas. They don't have to be huge ideas; I imagine the key here will be the little stuff adding up.

Malefactour had the idea to give us a clear representation of the current faction percentages per server before we even enter the game. This will definitely help, but will cause more trouble than it's worth if we don't do something else as well. At near-balance, these percentages will be all the balance necessary, but it'll seem hopeless if a give faction has something like a 15% lead on the others. So knowing more needs to be done, I think this is a given and should be implemented.

Free Faction/Race Transfers: This is slightly difficult to implement, especially if the classes are at all different. If they can do it, then a one-way faction transfer can do a lot to help out the balance. But like the previous idea, this isn't enough to fix the issue.

Faction-Wide Buffs: I'm iffy on this, because in my opinion anything that sets the power level of a given person over that of another should not be implemented. I'm even against something like currency gains due to economies having an effect on the overall power level of a race. So rather than something like a damage or speed increase, they could implement something to increase the race's population faster, such as experience gains (they'll no doubt have levels :cry: ). I do think the developers should be striving to avoid giving any buffs at all though.

A more creative option that may not be as viable now as it might have been a few months ago is to place the starter areas and certain hubs closer to advantageous areas. A small amount of resources here, a bit of extra experience there, etc can do a lot to give a race an edge over another, especially if those strategically placed areas give the lower level players of another race a view of how "badass" they are :lol:. This is especially viable if these hubs/strongholds can be moved later on.

Subliminal messages (not really) in the form of cut scenes/pre-rendered videos that appear based on which race needs more players. If the Orks are in trouble, a cut scene for the Orks would appear to make them seem a more viable option than the player may have initially thought. These would appear before the player even made his/her character of course, and they can easily choose any other cutscene they want to view from a cinematics menu. This can be furthered by defaulting the initial character creation process to the lowest populated race.



Now for what I consider to be bad ideas:

Buffs/Tenacity/NPC Help: WoW and other MMOs give buffs based on population imbalances. I personally feel this is a copout and does not fix any of the other issues that come with major population imbalances, such as World PvP, grouping, guilding, and PvP areas where there are enough objectives to spread people too thin. This should be a last resort, as it does not "fix" anything. Additional NPC help is a better option, but still doesn't fix the issues listed.

Faction Lockouts: The idea of stopping someone's character creation due to the actions of other people rubs me the wrong way. This would be a huge turn off to far too many players, because a lot of them just won't play anything but their favorite race. People really get into the IP, and a Space Marine player can truly be against playing anything else. I feel this idea would be incredibly bad for business as well as PR.

Better Gear/Achievements/Vanity Items: For the same reasons Buffs/Tenacity/NPC Help. It doesn't fix the problem, and can make the other races angry. Picking an underpopulated race shouldn't automatically give you an advantage over everyone else. That just doesn't make sense; it should be a disadvantage.


If it seemed that during this post my opinions of how many factions we'll have leaked through, forgive me. I tried to make it so it would work for any number of factions, including the proposed two.


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 Post subject: Re: Population Balance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:06 am 
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Ok, I have a really great idea.


Cookies. :D :D :D :D

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Simply give people cookies for joining the faction or race that's "in trouble". :D :D :D :D



Alternatively they could set up rumors that I'm currently playing on the faction/race in question on that server... which would undoubtedly lead to a huge population increase. :D

Ok, that would actually just turn the tables, bad idea. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Population Balance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:58 am 
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Upon rereading my post in the Two Factions thread that you mentioned, I should clarify that my suggestions would work best as a comprehensive system and not just 4 stand-alone solutions. Any ONE of those mechanics would help, but 2, 3, or all 4 working in conjunction would be far better, imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Population Balance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:45 pm 
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Another idea:

Let Space Marines (and depending on classes, perhaps IG) become corrupt and get a one-way ticket to Chaos.

As long as it is a very difficult choice to make, I don't see people having too much of an issue with not being able to go back.

I realize this is kind of a popular idea in other ways, but it could also make for a very good way to manage population. :o

Malefactour wrote:
Upon rereading my post in the Two Factions thread that you mentioned, I should clarify that my suggestions would work best as a comprehensive system and not just 4 stand-alone solutions. Any ONE of those mechanics would help, but 2, 3, or all 4 working in conjunction would be far better, imo.


Ahh yes, I didn't mean to suggest what you meant by my post. The "transparency" idea stuck with me harder, so I used it. Upon further reading, I also like the funneling idea, even if that might cause people to get a server that isn't ideal when considering their physical location. So like with almost all of these ideas, I'd add: Within reason.

I'll quote your post for future reference:

Malefactour wrote:
Lots of good discussion in this topic so I thought I'd chime in. I'd posted my thoughts on 2 faction balancing in another post, but sadly cannot remember which one and don't have the time to wade through the whole of these impressively large forums now. ;)

From the perspective of a closed beta WAR player, 2 faction world pvp, when it's a primary focus of the game, does not work well as it's been implemented in other game systems. We are all well versed on why it doesn't work well so I'll just reiterate what I feel would go the furthest to mitigating the problems.

1. Funnel players to servers at character creation. In any game with world pvp as a focus activity, the player should make their characters and be ASSIGNED a starting server. This allows for the use of a smart system to place faction members where they are moste needed to ensure balance.

2. Free character transfers or server passes. Combined with 1 above, this would allow players to meet up with their friends and guildmates shortly after the game launches, say 1 to 2 months after open beta/launch. To avoid abuse, I think the best implementation of this would be to allow a single character transfer, per account, per month, that resets after use. This way, people wouldn't horde character transfers and would have to decide smartly when to make a move, but also knowing that if it doesn't work out they can transfer back in a month or start moving their other characters if it does. The other key benefit to free transfers is it allows the playerbase to self adjust populations. In WAR, seeing the steamroller faction switch sides when the fun ran out was not uncommon, and Mythic offered nothing to encourage this, the players took the initiative to find good, balanced fights.

3. Disable new character creation on imbalanced servers. If a faction has a distinct population imbalance the servers need to automatically disable new character creation even for accounts that consider that their 'home' server. This discourages the zergers from re-rolling new characters to ride the coattails of the dominate faction to easy rank/rewards and can easily be implemented by server architecture.

4. Population transparency. This is one that scares developers alot, but is one thing that could possible be the most useful tool for the players to self correct server imbalances and that's just to post the number of accounts associated with either faction on each server. If people can see for themselves in the server list what the situation is, they can make informed judgements as to where they want to spend their playtime or relocate their guilds to.

Most developers tend to want to take a hands off approach to populating their games, want to let it develop organically, which is exactly the WRONG approach to take in a 2 faction, world pvp heavy game.


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 Post subject: Re: Population Balance
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Bots.






They will fix everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Population Balance
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Funneling could cause problems with people getting into timezone specific servers, but the tendency in recent years has been to not have t.z.s. servers. I personally would love if there are individual servers versus a single N.A. or Euro shard that they be designated by timezone. I started WoW at launch on Shadowsong server, a designated West Coast server, and found tons of people to play with in my timeframe and even many other Alaskans. I would happily trade t.z.s. servers for one that was as close to 50%/50% faction balance though.

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 Post subject: Re: Population Balance
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:05 pm 
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Malefactour wrote:
Funneling could cause problems with people getting into timezone specific servers, but the tendency in recent years has been to not have t.z.s. servers. I personally would love if there are individual servers versus a single N.A. or Euro shard that they be designated by timezone. I started WoW at launch on Shadowsong server, a designated West Coast server, and found tons of people to play with in my timeframe and even many other Alaskans. I would happily trade t.z.s. servers for one that was as close to 50%/50% faction balance though.


I've read your post about five times, and still can't figure out what you mean. :­o

By saying you prefer "individual servers" do you mean you would rather have those than large cross-server "battlegroups"?

If so, I agree completely. One of the reasons I quit WoW was the lack of community. In Vanilla, I knew who I was fighting, I knew their strengths and weaknesses, and I would say most of the friendships I formed in that game were from fighting against each other. Even knowing the people, the fights were still different due to the mechanics of the game and the ever-shifting team makeups.

Yeah, merging populations helps balance issues a bit, and I guess it provides "fresh" competition, but if I wanted ever-changing opponents and no social aspect to my PvP, I'd play an FPS.

I'm also of the opinion that PvE becomes even more lame than it already is when cross-server grouping is in place. There is zero connection to the players, no reason to get to know each other, and nobody is held accountable for their actions. Not to say I care about loot whores or whatever; it's more along the lines of being a douche and still getting groups. If they were on the same server, word would spread and a douche or horrid player would stop getting groups. But with cross-server grouping, they just pop into another and nobody is the wiser. :x


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 Post subject: Re: Population Balance
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:23 am 
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Hehe, sorry, was a bit wordy in that post. My preference would be a single giant server, ala EvE or Darkfall. Most likely what we'll get will be much smaller generic servers like the current WoW model. With a capacity in the 10k to 20k max. player range. If there are multiple generic servers, funneling could work fine, but if some of those servers are time zone specific it could cause difficulties if you're looking for a server to match your most likely playtime. They could get around it by just having you pick some options from a menu when you're done making your character such as PVE, PVP, RP, and timezone.

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 Post subject: Re: Population Balance
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:42 am 
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I think Warhammer Age of Reckoning's balance in general may actually give a good indication of what balance in DMO40k may be. Only difference being that certain races/classes aren't available.

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 Post subject: Re: Population Balance
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:35 pm 
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There will be ALOT more orks than that, orks are extremely popular (still SM and IG beat orks by a gap)

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